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	<title>Comments on: Stop Saying You Support Hillary Clinton</title>
	<link>http://www.decimation.com/markw/2008/06/16/stop-saying-you-support-hillary-clinton/</link>
	<description>Because a lot happens on this pale blue dot</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: kmb08</title>
		<link>http://www.decimation.com/markw/2008/06/16/stop-saying-you-support-hillary-clinton/#comment-3354</link>
		<author>kmb08</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 18:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.decimation.com/markw/2008/06/16/stop-saying-you-support-hillary-clinton/#comment-3354</guid>
		<description>I have so much to say, so here goes:

First, I am an ardent HRC supporter!  I am on the fence at the moment, because, quite frankly, the election is about MORE than "issues" of the platform.  Elections always are. There are other principles that are worth standing up for.


 This primary season was unprecedented in all regards.  This process shined a gigantic light on the Democratic nominating process "rules", and what we found is the Republican nominating process has more democracy in it than our own!

Did HRC and BO both agree to the rules levied against FL/MI by the DNC? Yes. However, no one expected this process to be so unprecedented that all states and US territories would play a significant role in determining the outcome as was the case, and because of this, all states should have been allowed to vote and count!  No DNC ruling should EVER, in effect, punish VOTERS per se.  In addition, IA, SC, &#38; NH also broke the early election rules, but they were given waivers rather than punishment. The fact that BO's campaign blocked a revote in FL/MI speaks volumes.  BO would have been allowed to outspend HRC 3 to 1 if he wanted, campaign as much as he wanted, but he still balked. 

Next, we have the fake RBC meeting.  Not only did the panel decide to only award FL/MI 1/2 vote each, but in MI, the panel decided to give BO all the mail in votes without ever opening the envelopes, all the uncommitted votes, which also included votes for JEdwards and Richardson, then, to top it off, the panel decided to take away four of HRC's delegates and also give those to BO!!!  BO didn't have his name on the MI ballot because he had seen the polls showing him 20% behind, so to curry favor with Iowa, he demanded his name not be on the ballot. His campaign sent out mailings alerting voters to vote "uncommitted" if they wanted to vote for BO, and this is just what they did, because the "uncommitted" vote result was higher than ever before.

Caucus fraud:  There is a documentary being created that shows the coercion, disenfranchisement, &#38; intimidation that was prevalent at these caucuses. HRC's campaign, and HRC voters pleaded with HDean and other DNC leaders to get a handle on such practices. They did nothing!!  Everyone praises BO for organizing so well in the caucuses, but to praise someone for mastering "intimidation" reeks of machiavellianism! Even if there was no intimidation involved, caucuses by there mere definition, disenfranchise many demographics, losing all democracy in the process.

BO's resume'...Through research, I was able to discover that Emil Jones placed BO's name on legislation that BO didn't actually do work on to pad BO's resume'.  BO has a reputation for being gutless and partisan. He doesn't sound believable when he speaks of "standing up" for the middle class.  I don't feel he is genuine.  I've always had good gut instincts, and BO doesn't feel right to my gut. 

HRC has been under more microscopic scrutiny over the last 16yrs. than any other woman politician.  Some of my allegiance to her is indeed because of what she has gone through, and because she's a woman. A woman brings an entirely different perspective to issues. HRC had in her agenda a goal to eradicate breast cancer. HRC's healthcare plan was very different from BO's. Without a mandated system, universality is a pipe dream. Did HRC face unprecedented sexism, of course, but this is not my main gripe. I feel HRC is a very different person than the image created of her, and she actually had to "re-introduce" herself to people who had a preconceived idea of who she was.  To do this is very difficult. HRC has such compassion/passion/grit/integrity/policy knowledge, and she works her ever loving heart out. Why do you think she convinced so many Republicans in the state of NY to vote for her?  They know how hard she works!!!!  HRC connects so well with elderly voters. They feel her compassion when she looks them in the eyes. BO can say all the same slogans HRC uttered, but it will never resonate as much with certain demographics, because it is clear his words do not have the same passion!

Long before the primary election was over, the MSM continued to plant the seed in voters' minds that HRC had lost, and for the superdelegates to side with her would be "overturning" the will of the people.  This completely flies in the face of the Democratic rules. BO only had a lead in pledged delegates because of caucuses(see caucus fraud above), and because all voters are not counted equally(urban voters count more than rural voters for example). So, to say the lead in pledged delegates represents "the will of the people" is not the whole story.  HRC, it can be argued, had the most popular vote, and by all accounts, this is the actual will of the people!  Superdelegates job was to side with the stronger candidate, and from the end of February forward, HRC was clearly the stronger candidate. She won more congressional districts, more pop vote, swing states, and all large states (except IL).  She still today polls better against McCain than BO. Based on of all this, the MSM had an inordinate amount of power in swaying this selection of BO.  

So, we get back to why many of HRC's voters would turn to McCain.  McCain isn't like Bush in my opinion. Sure, he has to appeal to his base, but consider this. J.Kerry considered McCain for his VP pick. HRC and McCain are very good friends.  GHart was in McCain's wedding. The far right wing of the Republican party are very uneasy with McCain. McCain and HRC have actually worked across party lines. By almost all accounts, BO has been heavily partisan.

Democratic reform is very important to many of us HRC supporters. We feel in order to actually send HDean, Pelosi, &#38; other DNC party leaders a message about the inequities in this primary season, we must vote against some issues near and dear to us for the greater good. I hope this makes the case a little clearer for many of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have so much to say, so here goes:</p>
<p>First, I am an ardent HRC supporter!  I am on the fence at the moment, because, quite frankly, the election is about MORE than &#8220;issues&#8221; of the platform.  Elections always are. There are other principles that are worth standing up for.</p>
<p> This primary season was unprecedented in all regards.  This process shined a gigantic light on the Democratic nominating process &#8220;rules&#8221;, and what we found is the Republican nominating process has more democracy in it than our own!</p>
<p>Did HRC and BO both agree to the rules levied against FL/MI by the DNC? Yes. However, no one expected this process to be so unprecedented that all states and US territories would play a significant role in determining the outcome as was the case, and because of this, all states should have been allowed to vote and count!  No DNC ruling should EVER, in effect, punish VOTERS per se.  In addition, IA, SC, &amp; NH also broke the early election rules, but they were given waivers rather than punishment. The fact that BO&#8217;s campaign blocked a revote in FL/MI speaks volumes.  BO would have been allowed to outspend HRC 3 to 1 if he wanted, campaign as much as he wanted, but he still balked. </p>
<p>Next, we have the fake RBC meeting.  Not only did the panel decide to only award FL/MI 1/2 vote each, but in MI, the panel decided to give BO all the mail in votes without ever opening the envelopes, all the uncommitted votes, which also included votes for JEdwards and Richardson, then, to top it off, the panel decided to take away four of HRC&#8217;s delegates and also give those to BO!!!  BO didn&#8217;t have his name on the MI ballot because he had seen the polls showing him 20% behind, so to curry favor with Iowa, he demanded his name not be on the ballot. His campaign sent out mailings alerting voters to vote &#8220;uncommitted&#8221; if they wanted to vote for BO, and this is just what they did, because the &#8220;uncommitted&#8221; vote result was higher than ever before.</p>
<p>Caucus fraud:  There is a documentary being created that shows the coercion, disenfranchisement, &amp; intimidation that was prevalent at these caucuses. HRC&#8217;s campaign, and HRC voters pleaded with HDean and other DNC leaders to get a handle on such practices. They did nothing!!  Everyone praises BO for organizing so well in the caucuses, but to praise someone for mastering &#8220;intimidation&#8221; reeks of machiavellianism! Even if there was no intimidation involved, caucuses by there mere definition, disenfranchise many demographics, losing all democracy in the process.</p>
<p>BO&#8217;s resume&#8217;&#8230;Through research, I was able to discover that Emil Jones placed BO&#8217;s name on legislation that BO didn&#8217;t actually do work on to pad BO&#8217;s resume&#8217;.  BO has a reputation for being gutless and partisan. He doesn&#8217;t sound believable when he speaks of &#8220;standing up&#8221; for the middle class.  I don&#8217;t feel he is genuine.  I&#8217;ve always had good gut instincts, and BO doesn&#8217;t feel right to my gut. </p>
<p>HRC has been under more microscopic scrutiny over the last 16yrs. than any other woman politician.  Some of my allegiance to her is indeed because of what she has gone through, and because she&#8217;s a woman. A woman brings an entirely different perspective to issues. HRC had in her agenda a goal to eradicate breast cancer. HRC&#8217;s healthcare plan was very different from BO&#8217;s. Without a mandated system, universality is a pipe dream. Did HRC face unprecedented sexism, of course, but this is not my main gripe. I feel HRC is a very different person than the image created of her, and she actually had to &#8220;re-introduce&#8221; herself to people who had a preconceived idea of who she was.  To do this is very difficult. HRC has such compassion/passion/grit/integrity/policy knowledge, and she works her ever loving heart out. Why do you think she convinced so many Republicans in the state of NY to vote for her?  They know how hard she works!!!!  HRC connects so well with elderly voters. They feel her compassion when she looks them in the eyes. BO can say all the same slogans HRC uttered, but it will never resonate as much with certain demographics, because it is clear his words do not have the same passion!</p>
<p>Long before the primary election was over, the MSM continued to plant the seed in voters&#8217; minds that HRC had lost, and for the superdelegates to side with her would be &#8220;overturning&#8221; the will of the people.  This completely flies in the face of the Democratic rules. BO only had a lead in pledged delegates because of caucuses(see caucus fraud above), and because all voters are not counted equally(urban voters count more than rural voters for example). So, to say the lead in pledged delegates represents &#8220;the will of the people&#8221; is not the whole story.  HRC, it can be argued, had the most popular vote, and by all accounts, this is the actual will of the people!  Superdelegates job was to side with the stronger candidate, and from the end of February forward, HRC was clearly the stronger candidate. She won more congressional districts, more pop vote, swing states, and all large states (except IL).  She still today polls better against McCain than BO. Based on of all this, the MSM had an inordinate amount of power in swaying this selection of BO.  </p>
<p>So, we get back to why many of HRC&#8217;s voters would turn to McCain.  McCain isn&#8217;t like Bush in my opinion. Sure, he has to appeal to his base, but consider this. J.Kerry considered McCain for his VP pick. HRC and McCain are very good friends.  GHart was in McCain&#8217;s wedding. The far right wing of the Republican party are very uneasy with McCain. McCain and HRC have actually worked across party lines. By almost all accounts, BO has been heavily partisan.</p>
<p>Democratic reform is very important to many of us HRC supporters. We feel in order to actually send HDean, Pelosi, &amp; other DNC party leaders a message about the inequities in this primary season, we must vote against some issues near and dear to us for the greater good. I hope this makes the case a little clearer for many of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave in lv</title>
		<link>http://www.decimation.com/markw/2008/06/16/stop-saying-you-support-hillary-clinton/#comment-3352</link>
		<author>Dave in lv</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 11:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.decimation.com/markw/2008/06/16/stop-saying-you-support-hillary-clinton/#comment-3352</guid>
		<description>Because its always better to have a democrat in office than a republican. For the working class at least.

It was a democrat in office that gave us 21% interest rates, 18% inflation and over 12% unemployment. This helped the working class how?

The Bush tax cuts not only gave everyone more money in their pockets but eliminated the 10 MILLION poorest people from having to file a return. This not only helped the working class but also caused revenue to the US Treasury to increase! Did any democrat do anything similar? 

Iraq has changed from shooting at our planes and supporting terrorists to helping us kill Al Qaida forces within their country. 

The only stated difference between JM and BHO is JM would like to leave Iraq in good shape and BHO would leave no matter what happens. After all, per BHO we can always return...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because its always better to have a democrat in office than a republican. For the working class at least.</p>
<p>It was a democrat in office that gave us 21% interest rates, 18% inflation and over 12% unemployment. This helped the working class how?</p>
<p>The Bush tax cuts not only gave everyone more money in their pockets but eliminated the 10 MILLION poorest people from having to file a return. This not only helped the working class but also caused revenue to the US Treasury to increase! Did any democrat do anything similar? </p>
<p>Iraq has changed from shooting at our planes and supporting terrorists to helping us kill Al Qaida forces within their country. </p>
<p>The only stated difference between JM and BHO is JM would like to leave Iraq in good shape and BHO would leave no matter what happens. After all, per BHO we can always return&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: britbone</title>
		<link>http://www.decimation.com/markw/2008/06/16/stop-saying-you-support-hillary-clinton/#comment-2601</link>
		<author>britbone</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.decimation.com/markw/2008/06/16/stop-saying-you-support-hillary-clinton/#comment-2601</guid>
		<description>thank you, i'm an Obama supporter, but if Obama would have lost i would have voted for clinton. Because its always better to have a democrat in office than a republican. For the working class at least. And there policies are almost identical so it wouldn't make since to vote for John Mccain. That would be selfish and stupid and if you do that you were never a democrat in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you, i&#8217;m an Obama supporter, but if Obama would have lost i would have voted for clinton. Because its always better to have a democrat in office than a republican. For the working class at least. And there policies are almost identical so it wouldn&#8217;t make since to vote for John Mccain. That would be selfish and stupid and if you do that you were never a democrat in the first place.</p>
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